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i can see up Harvey's nose.
by Gatsbys West Egg Omlet
Aug 6th, 2008
07:56:48 AM
and so can you.
Superman...
by DuncanHines
Aug 6th, 2008
07:57:03 AM
Yeah, I am NOT feeling Robinson's Superman so far. Even Guedes' Kirby-esque pages couldn't save this one for me. I'm dropping it like a bag full of sick poop. It really is a shame this book is so "meh," especially since I just tore into my Starman Omnibus volume 1, and I had forgotten how damn good that book was. And it doesn't actually start being really good until issue 5 or so, but man, is it good. As I type, I'm now considering sticking with Robinson's Superman. Because it might just get real real good around his 5th or 6th issue...
Also...
by DuncanHines
Aug 6th, 2008
07:57:33 AM
Final Crisis 3 this week. THANK GODDDDDD!!!!
best two-face story:
by Gatsbys West Egg Omlet
Aug 6th, 2008
08:00:46 AM
the run (maybe just one comic) in No Man's Land when good heads kept winning. he and Montoya had a little adventure where he saved her and some kids and such as that.

and then he might have put Gordon on trial, with Dent defending and TwoFace prosecuting. but that might have been another story. i forget.

Ambush Bug once went on trial with Two-Face...
by rev_skarekroe
Aug 6th, 2008
08:05:30 AM
...as both defender and prosecutor. The judge was Harvey Dent's dad. Poor Ambush Bug.
Batman continunity
by brassai2003
Aug 6th, 2008
08:15:36 AM
can someone explain (lookin' @ YOU Bug) what the fuck is going on with DC's continunity? The BIG bat story in his titles is not carrying over into any other titles, including Gotham After Midnight (a pretty great under the radar bats maxi series). In the RIP storyline (SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS!)nightwing has been committed to Arkham and Bruce is wandering around Gotham out of his freaking mind. How does this all fit????
Archer & Armstrong
by RenoNevada2000
Aug 6th, 2008
08:19:59 AM
Since when did you guys start just printing press releases?
Trinity doesn't work, but DC are addicted to the 52 format now
by V'Shael
Aug 6th, 2008
08:35:24 AM
Unless Trinity does terrible numbers, expect to see another "weekly" series come directly after it.
"APOCALIPSTIX" - spelled with an 'i', not a 'y'
by Humphrey Lee
Aug 6th, 2008
09:06:34 AM
Apparently I accidentally sent in the unedited review of the book (where I kept mispelling the title because I'm pretty much half a tard) or some such instance happened. Sorry to all those involved, we'll see if we can get that fixed ASAP.
newuniversal 1959
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 6th, 2008
09:13:25 AM
In the end, all I can say about newuniversal 1959 is that it was not bad. I had never been exposed to the newuniversal universe at all (except during the Exiles' Worlds Tour when they went there, I think), and this won't convince me to really give it a try, either the riginal or the "re-imagined" one, but this quasi-noir period piece was nice filler. I personally think that Phonogram is the best comic that came out over the last few years, and Gillen here writes nothing that could be compared to Phonogram, but I'll still follow him to a couple of new efforts still and see what he can do. As for Phonogram: Singles Night, as the old philosopher, "Can't wait, such a huge fan!"
hmmmm....
by Joenathan
Aug 6th, 2008
09:21:45 AM
No Old Man Logan... surprise, surprise. I guess my predictive review was a little spot on, hmmm?
newuniversal 1959: take two, the final sentence
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 6th, 2008
09:26:44 AM
As for Phonogram: Singles Night, as the old philosopher ONCE SAID, "Can't wait, such a huge fan!". (that'll teach me to try and be funny with the AICN staples)
Teen Titans
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 6th, 2008
09:34:57 AM
When McKeever left Marvel, I was worried. When they announced he would be taking over Teen Titans, I was glad. Then I bought issue 50, and I was disappointed. I left DC back when Identity Crisis started and had not looked back since. Although the Marvel Universe is in as much a mess as the DCU, I can actually follow some Marvel titles without worrying about Civil Invasion and other such cash-grabbing gimmicks. I kept buying Teen Titans, and it does get better with almost every issue it seems, but man do I miss Spider-Man Loves Mary-Jane. I'm giving DC one more chance right now with Final Crisis because of Grant Morrisson, but I can tell you already there's no way I'm diving back into this universe.
Trinity blows!
by Wormie1
Aug 6th, 2008
09:40:48 AM
I'm very close to dropping Trinity. Many people hated Countdown, but it at least tied in to ongoing events in the DCU and got better as it went on. Trinity should have been an obvious winner as it stars DC's three main icons, but the story is just poor. And no, it isn't in the current continuity of the regular titles, and nor is the excellent Gotham After Midnight.
Books I've dropped recently include Trinity and Teen Titans
by Squashua
Aug 6th, 2008
09:45:16 AM
Actually, I stopped picking up Teen Titans a while ago.
DC: Atlas is going to be this year's Alpha Centurion
by Squashua
Aug 6th, 2008
09:48:14 AM
I call it now. He'll get slightly more interesting, appear all over the place in cameos, and then no one will use him once Robinson leaves the title, and he'll disappear into the ether.
"Although the Marvel Universe is in as much a mess as the DCU"
by Joenathan
Aug 6th, 2008
09:49:11 AM
explain
I Thought All Five Issues of Joker's Asylum Were Pretty Good.
by larry_chimp_man
Aug 6th, 2008
09:52:44 AM
Would love to see DC turn it into an ongoing book of one-shots.
I quit Marvel with Civil War...
by Kid Z
Aug 6th, 2008
10:25:38 AM
...and DC about 2 1/2 Crises of Infinite Crisises (yeah, the grammar sucks on purpose!) ago. If any of the publishers do something cool like Sinestro Corp War, I pick it up when it comes out in book format. I do miss hanging out with all the other losers in my local, smelly, scary-looking comics store, though. Oh well... the good times never last...
Arkhangelsk!
by Psynapse
Aug 6th, 2008
11:15:02 AM
Long time no see, my brother. How's tricks in the great white north?
That (AICN masthead) Action comic
by Snookeroo
Aug 6th, 2008
11:51:43 AM
has to be one of the most embarrassing Superman comic covers in it's entire 70 year history. A character called "Terra-Man" was lame enough, but to have him riding Superman like a bronco has got to be an all-time nadir. The late 70's was not a good time for DC.
archer and armstrong
by x-oManowar
Aug 6th, 2008
11:52:42 AM
cant wait for the hardcover. love that series and am excited for the new story. wonder if it will get the big screen treatment. the story fits perfectly...ryan gosling for archer!! of course they have to do an xomanowar movie first:)
Terra-Man...
by Kid Z
Aug 6th, 2008
12:49:24 PM
...Why does everyone think combining science fiction and westerns is a good idea? (Yes! I'm talking to YOU, die-hard Firefly fans!)
brassai2003...who cares if rip fits
by bacci40
Aug 6th, 2008
01:22:20 PM
its morrison goddamnit...you should be happy...btw, watchmen sold out a 300k print run
Batman
by Senator Tankerbell
Aug 6th, 2008
01:31:16 PM
I'm gonna go on record that I think Morrison is going to make the villain Thomas Wayne. I know that Batman's father has looked like a red herring so far, but I think it's an actual revelation disguised as a red herring. It occurs to me that one of Morrison's favorite themes is the hero who loses faith in their own higher authority, undergoes crisis, and comes out changed but stronger, wiser, and more pure. It amounts to the adolescent's rejection of the father on the way to adulthood, and you see it in a lot of his stuff. I compare it to when Robotman discovered The Chief was the secret villain manipulating the lives of The Doom Patrol.

So in interviews when Morrison says Batman has a fate worse than death, and that 'Bruce' won't be Batman anymore, I think he's referring to some rejection of the Wayne legacy by Bruce. A Batman that continues being Batman without also being a multi-billionaire. Maybe.The way Dr. Hurt refers to Batman is very proprietary, too, "our boy", etc.

I'm just saying, I think Dr. Hurt could really be Thomas Wayne. Possibly Hugo Strange, but I think Morrison's taking a huge part of Batman's motivating origin away from him to see what's left.

Not always Snookeroo...
by Psynapse
Aug 6th, 2008
02:33:25 PM
Supergirl was one sexy beeyotch in those hotpants with the V-cut puffy sleeve blouse.
"rejection of the father"
by rock-me Amodeo
Aug 6th, 2008
02:54:03 PM
It's a shame that so many people can identify with that theme, myself included.

What happened to all the fathers worthy of emulation, whose sons couldn't wait to grow up just like them? I dunno.
Psynapse!
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 6th, 2008
03:34:09 PM
Yo Psy! Long time no talk. The great white north is a sad and quasi-lonely place. You still got my e-mail? drop me a line if you do (I lost yours) and I'll bring you up to date on what's going on with me.
Joenathan
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 6th, 2008
03:37:58 PM
DC = everything intermingled but with no purpose, Marvel = everything tightly knit together in one long story that doesn't end. Both publishers are trying to bitchslap me like a five dollar hooker to get all my money. But it ain't happening. If I want a good superhero story, I'll just get Terry Moore's Echo, at which if anyone of you hasn't even looked, get the soon to be published tpb of the first story arc and just bathe in good storytelling.
or, you know, just bathe
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 6th, 2008
03:38:28 PM
it's always good advice
Terry Moore's Echo
by rock-me Amodeo
Aug 6th, 2008
03:46:53 PM
I haven't been to the LCS in a couple weeks (hence my lack of reviews), but I forgot that's coming out today. I will make the trip for that.

That's a great example of a comic book that always seems to read very fast, and i mean that in the best way.
so....
by Joenathan
Aug 6th, 2008
04:08:27 PM
you'd PREFER that the stories all be stand alone with no carry over then? I can't get behind that. Me, personally, I feel rewarded for hanging with Marvel, for getting to see the big picture all come together. And what do you mean end? characters are created by the sum total of their experiences, thats how further stories are made. The aftermath of this invasion will surely send many characters off in many new directions with exciting possibilities, do you think this is a bad thing? The characters know each other, they grow, they change... this is good. I just don't seem how one long, cohesive universe story could possibly be a bad thing? Tell you what, let me ask you this: Of the two types of TV shows I am about to name, which style do you prefer (keep in mind, I'm asking about the style of story telling, not the actual show's content) so... CSI or Lost? I only ask in order to gage whether or not further discussion between us is needed.
"needed" ?
by rock-me Amodeo
Aug 6th, 2008
04:42:24 PM
Sounds like someone's got a case of the egocentrics.
You're talking about me, right?
by Joenathan
Aug 6th, 2008
04:51:49 PM
awesome... I live for that.
Rock-me Amodeo
by Snookeroo
Aug 6th, 2008
05:22:14 PM
What happened to all the fathers worthy of emulation, whose sons couldn't wait to grow up just like them? I think the last one in the comic book world was Dr. Quest.
Yeah, no further discussion is needed.
by SleazyG.
Aug 6th, 2008
05:22:23 PM
Like, ever.
Psynapse
by Snookeroo
Aug 6th, 2008
05:24:30 PM
Gotta agree -- many adolescent moments were spent admiring that particular costume.
Echo is indeed a fast read
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 6th, 2008
05:26:22 PM
but so was SIP and that's one of my favorite books ever also. Echo started out kinda slow, first three issues were really just set up and #4 is where the fun really started. As for Joenathan, please understand that I am not here to be schooled or to be told what or how to think. I am not your serf and you may not decide whether I am worth talking to as if you were my master. But I am always up for good exchange of ideas. To me DC or Marvel right now is not one long cohesive story. It is long. It is not a story, as stories have ends. There is no end in sight to these "stories" or the amount of money I would have to spend to read them. It is not cohesive because it is not written by the same writer(s) Just because something happens in one book and has repercussions in another book does not mean the story is cohesive. Look at Strangers In Paradise. That was one long cohesive story where characters grew and had experiences which gave new directions and exciting possibilities and further adventures. Moore did not hire all his buddies to come over and churn out stories which you would have had to buy to understand what was going on in the "main" book. If you enjoy the illusion of change which seems to be the mot d'ordre at the big (and the not so big) companies right now, then enjoy. I prefer a story told as whole. Bru is doing it with Captain America, Ennis did it with Punisher. But I'm not buying into Bendis' and Millar's "universe". And again, although I do not enjoy being judged, I am a geek and cannot resist a "which do you prefer" question. I'd take Lost over CSI any day of the week, but I did catch a Doug Petrie-penned CSI this week that was not too shabby...
Rock Me, you forgot about...
by Ambush Bug
Aug 6th, 2008
06:28:11 PM
STARMAN. It was all about a son not wanting to fill his fathers shoes, but finally becoming comfortable with the role. I guess the way it ended was a bit different than that, but for a long time, that book's main theme was tradition and taking up the mantle of the father. Some of the Thor stuff before the last series ended where Thor steps into the role of Lord of Asgard addressed those issues as well.
But you're right. Most of the stories deal with the son not wanting to be like the father or having to defeat the father in order to become a man. But I wouldn't call this a new trend per se, since it goes as far back as the Oedipus.
Father Vs Son
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 6th, 2008
07:00:04 PM
is basically a living metaphor for the present wanting to shed off the shackles of the past and create its own future. You can basically read the Invisibles that way too, with Dane McGowan reacting against his actual father, then against his father figure, ie King Mob, and against all form of authority, really, to bring humanity into a new age. I've tried getting into Starman, but the few issues I've read didn't pull me in. Although I loved Robinson's quick run on the WildCats back in the days, just prior to Alan Moore's.
Kill your teachers, kill your parents, kill your idols
by hst666
Aug 6th, 2008
10:40:06 PM
blah, blah, blah. Most father/son conflict is metaphorically about defining oneself and moving beyond what you were taught and the boundaries imposed by others. Of course, many entertainment writers do seem to have actual conflicts with their actual fathers.
rip jack kamen
by bacci40
Aug 7th, 2008
12:32:46 AM
nuff said
RIP Jack Kamen???
by DuncanHines
Aug 7th, 2008
07:18:45 AM
aw man. That's a true bummer. I love his EC stories. At one of the Wizard conventions, Jim Steranko told me I was the first person he ever heard name Jack Kamen as one of the EC artists they love. Dude was great and hella unsung.
Arkhangelsk
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
08:46:14 AM
1. I am your master, the sooner you accept that, the easier this will go. 2. I wasn't asking your preference to judge (not first and foremost, at least) but because the two shows high light two very different styles. One, CSI, is stand alone without reprecussions and it never matters whether or not you saw last weeks episode or not because the formula is always the same. Characters receive problem, characters solve problem, characters laugh at dumb joke, freeze frame, credits. See? A dumb show for dumb people. Where as a show like Lost, it does matter if you've been watching, in fact you must, in order to keep up as its telling one story (or so they claim...) My point being, if you had choosen CSI, I would have just assumed you were a fucking retard and let you move along in slow, plodding, hunch-backed, fucking retard world... BUT since you choose Lost, then I am interested in exchanging ideas and high-lighting to you just where in fact you are wrong and believe me, you are very, very wrong. Now, first off, no vagina-ing out here, man, none of this is personal or attempt to show off to the ladies on my part, I'm not trying to hold you down and make you say "uncle" or make you pretend that I'm your uncle, I'm just talking, so no whining, like Sleazy Pee. So....
so...
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
09:20:51 AM
You give no reason why you're not "buying" Bendis and Millar's "universe", so I'm just going to assume blind-geek hatred. There you're wrong. And claiming the story doesn’t hold because of your geek hatred is transparent. Their story has been cohesive, whether you want to admit it or not, you can trace its inception back a few years now. You can't expect more than that in comics without being unreasonable, because that is the nature of comics: multiple creators, continuous stories. And those stories don’t end. Didn’t X-men just hit 500? How many has Batman gone? Complaining about these things is a waste of time, much like complaining about the marketing. Comics are a business and the suits will sell, sell, sell and they won’t drop a good thing. That’s the way it goes, so deal with it and accept it. And quit whining about it. Yes, mainstream comics and its characters will not change and grow like a novel, they will not climax and then slide to a natural resolution and ending never to be heard from again, and yes, the only way to accomplish that is to have a creator owned title, published independently. But THAT is just NOT going to happen with say… Iron Man. Expecting that or pointing to it’s lack as a fault is just dumb. That’s like saying that a baseball player is worthless because he doesn’t have any yards rushed. See, here's a tip for you, Bru's Cap won't end, either, it’ll just keep on trucking, someone else will pick up the strings, like he did on Daredevil, and run with it and they will use some things Bru wrote and change whatever else they want in order to fit the story they are writing, shit, they could make Bucky/Cap an android and oops, that’s all she wrote, wah-wah-wahing about that possibility just proves you to be a dilettante. Let it go. Forget about it. If you can’t do that, just stop reading mainstream comics. Just stop. If you can’t accept a few inherent flaws as dictated by its very nature, then stop buying them. This is the way things go, it won’t change, okay? So back to the story, even a maxi-universe, like Bendis and Millar’s is always still going to be micro, get it? You can only judge it by its boundaries and Millar and Bendis’s boundaries are the Avenger related stuff. Mighty, New, Ms. Marvel, Herc, blah, blah, blah, these are all rubbing together and telling the same story, maybe not in the same place or with the same point, but it is within the same storyline. The Big story is affecting the little story. How is that not cohesive? Let me answer for you: It is. No one is out there writing that the World is actually being invaded by the Kree, are they? No. They’re all on the same page and telling their stories within that frame work. That’s cohesive. And now, because of things like this, because of cross book shake ups like this, Marvel is exciting again, events cause each other, affect each other, roll together, characters are driven to places by these events and their lives are affected by their decisions. I mean, come on, when was the last time Iron Man had two titles that are both worth the money? Anything can happen now. Of course, does that mean that I think Spider-man is ACTUALLY in danger of dying? No. Why? Because I’m not a moron. Look, comics come with certain rules, especially now in a year where comic movies have made a billion dollars. If you can’t accept those rules, then quit, because they won’t change. I mean, honestly, I don’t understand what some of you want from Marvel? Please, one of you, tell me what it is you would rather they be doing, because I don’t get it. I want to understand, because I’m loving stuff, right now and you all just whine and carp and whine and carp. Someone, tell me where you think they’re failing. And I’m not looking for a: “fire Joe/Bendis/Millar type answer, alright? I’m talking current output, because I’ll go toe to toe with anyone that Marvel is firing on all cylinders right now and putting out some of their best stuff since the sixties.
sorry it was so long...
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
09:21:47 AM
not really, but... AICN boards... what can you do? Welcome to the early 90s, right?
Also, Sleazy
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
09:22:15 AM
PPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFBB BBBBBBBBTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!! !!
Joe Nathan
by rock-me Amodeo
Aug 7th, 2008
09:38:10 AM
In an effort to make your posts more readable ("comprehensible" is still in your court) try putting a "< br >" (and eliminate the spaces) and quote marks) at the end of the line when you want a break, and two if you want a break and a space.
One br.

Two. Like so.

HTML was part of the 90's, too: you have to embrace the whole vibe.
Is anyone else bored with Joe Gnat yet...?
by Ambush Bug
Aug 7th, 2008
10:07:23 AM
I know I am.

Joe...can I call you Joe?

OK, Joe...I don't mind it that you're opinionated. We all are here. And even though your views don't really jive with mine, I'm cool with that too. And it certainly seems like you want to talk comics...and by the amount of posts you do, it seems like you have an awful lot of time to do so, which is a bonus in my book as well. Longer talkbacks are good.

The problem is, Joe, you're rude and you never really listen to others. Instead you just berate and toss out putdowns simply because others don't follow your limited world view. This makes people not want to interact with you and since you are constantly around, it makes people not want to post here.

That, my friend, is a problem.

Now, I know you'll scream, "This is ACIN! We're supposed to act like dickheads, not act like proper stiffs at a tea party!" And yes, you have a point, AICN does have a reputation of being a place where people harshly fight back and forth for long threads, tossing putdowns and yer mutha rips and presenting an altogether awful image of what the internet can be on its absolute worst day.

Thing is, here at AICN Comics, we like to up the ante a bit. We would like to invite people to read the column and post in the talkbacks. But when one rude person dominates the talkbacks with putdowns and simple-mindedness, well, that makes my finger hover over the BAN THAT MOTHERFUCKER Button.

Consider this a warning, Joenathan. You won't get another. Play nice. You seem to have a lot to say. Do so in a way that doesn't make people want to stay away from the Talkbacks and every thing will be hunky dorey. People come here to talk comics. It's a big site, but we've carved out a fun little niche where intelligent people can talk intelligently about intelligent stuff. Call it out AICN Comics Oasis, if you will. There's room here for you too. You just have to learn to take it down a notch and not be so off-putting. If you think your feelings about Marvel or DC or whatever is so correct, why not debate that with someone. Maybe both parties will take something away from the interaction. What you've done for the last few weeks is tear into anyone who doesn't agree with you and call them ignorant for not being your clone.

Play nice. Shit like "I am your master..." ain't cool. Test my limits and you're dust...
Oh... so you can insult me though
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
10:41:35 AM
And thanks for the tip,Amodeo
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
10:42:25 AM
I tried that at first, but it didn't take. I must have entered it wrong.
rock-me
by Senator Tankerbell
Aug 7th, 2008
11:09:35 AM
Do father's like that really exist? I've heard of them, but I'm not convinced.

Morrison did indeed employ the trope in The Invisibles, as well as Animal Man (who confronts the ultimate father) and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Also, I vote Old Man Logan as the most obliviously hilarious comic story of the last decade.

Umm, No I have to disagree Joenathan....
by Psynapse
Aug 7th, 2008
11:51:58 AM
Marvel is REAHASHING their best stuff FROM the sixties. YOu REALLY gonna try to convince anyone (like me) whose read Marvel for over 30 years that a Skrull Invasion is even remotely a new concept? Putting the religious spin on it finally doesn't make it anything more than a rehash. Same suit, different shoes, nothing more. (But hey, if you are enjoying it then more power to ya, Personally I'm finding Final Crisis to be a much more satisfying read but then I tend to prefer stories that push me to actually think about them and what themes they are trying to express)
Yo Arkhangelsk AKA FT!
by Psynapse
Aug 7th, 2008
11:56:44 AM
Tag beeyotch! You'se it!(*_^)
Superman
by Bluejack
Aug 7th, 2008
12:22:36 PM
Originally Jor-El was a good standard for Kal-El. The more recent versions are a bit more muddled.
Barry Allen was a positive role model for Wally.
Uncle Ben is another example of a positive role model.
No one is insulting you, Joe
by Homer Sexual
Aug 7th, 2008
12:26:06 PM
As one of those who has gone back and forth with you, I can say that you do have some points to make, but then you also try to shout down anyone who doesn't toe your line. For example, when I said I like Secret Invasion, you actually thought I only said that to get credibility from you. and etc. And then, if I don't like Secret Invasion wholeheartedly and completely, it, well...doesn't count? Or something?

Since you like One Man Logan, why not post your own review? Yesterday I once again spent minutes in the LCS debating whether or not to pick up the second part of the story. I passed, but am open to changing my mind.

Not that you asked me, but if the choices are CSI or Lost, can I choose neither? I prefer not to pick one-and-done or endless meandering with maybe a drop of closure, at best.

Jonah Hex is a very entertaining book that does single issues. Runaways is a very entertaining book that does multiple issue stories, but each story does end. Come to think of it, so is Wolverine.

You make a good point with X-Men and Batman. That's why I pick those books up periodically, like for Batman RIP or the Death of the Shiar Empire. Or when Morrison did X-Men. OTOH, Claremont is the king of the endless "story."

Finally, Psynapse, do you really prefer Final Crisis to Secret Invasion? Final Crisis does lame, lame crap like bringing back Barry Allen, which is just weak. I just re-read Infinite Crisis, and though it has been much maligned, it was way better than FC has been so far. At this point, I have to equate FC with House of M. Both rather self-important, pompous but not that interesting.

Psynapse
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
12:44:08 PM
I didn't say it was new, just fun. There's nothing new out there, the trick is making it interesting
I choose my words VERY carefully
by Psynapse
Aug 7th, 2008
12:45:48 PM
Rehash (verb)1. to work up (old material) in a new form.

Try to debate the language we speak. Go ahead, it'll be funny at least

And remember, as I stated previously, if you're enjoying it MORE POWER TO YA (meant in all seriousness with NO rancor)....BUT don't try to tell people it's something 'new' because frankly, it's simply not. Oh and next time try recognize what the words I type are actually expressing rather than deciding they are 'like' what you want to think they are.

Served. (*_^)

Homer
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
12:57:40 PM
Actually Bug did. The "Gnat" reference is supposed to refer to an annoying creature to be swatted. Somewhat hypocritical in tone and intent, no? And I was just kidding with you about the cred thing, because... who the fuck cares about comic cred? It was a joke, like funny "ha-ha", so relax,calm down. You totally have juice with me, man. 'Nuff respect due. But, I'll be nice, I don't want anyone's salty, vaginal tears of hurt feelings shorting out their computers or anything... "
"As for CSI and Lost, they were just examples of a type, not specific. Maybe Lost was a bad example, how about Battlestar instead? And the point was, generally, if you like on type, then you're usually not into the other and if you're standing on opposite ends like that, you'll never really have a meeting of the minds, so why bother? If we're going to debate apples, it might as well be with someone who doesn't hate all apples and prefer oranges, dig? "
"As for Final Crisis and Secret Invasion... apples and oranges. You'll notice I haven't said much about DC and thats because for the most part, DC is not my cup of tea. I've been enjoying Final Crisis, but it doesn't blow my skirt up and on DC, at least, I agree with Archwhateverhisnamewas, their universe is a hot mess of confused and convoluted crap. Not that I don't love it in individual pieces, but as a whole, I think they put too much effort into making it all make sense and they just make it worse and worse each time, so I become less interested in trying and just piece-meal it."
"Joenathan's review of Old Man Logan: A one Act. Begin: If you don't like it, you're dumb! HAHAHAHA!
Are you talking to me or Jeff
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
12:59:11 PM
Please say Jeff...
And still...
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
01:02:20 PM
What exactly would you all prefer Marvel WAS doing, instead of one cohesive universe?
A new form does not equate to a new idea
by Psynapse
Aug 7th, 2008
01:13:54 PM
Example: A Flourescent bulb is a new form of an incandescent one. And taking the light bulb analogy even further ask any artist if a flourescent bulb's light is in any way superior to an incandescent's. (Trust me, it's not)

Does having been bored to tears and utterly unimpressed with the execution count as being a hater? Because if so, bring it. (But then, we'd be arguing personal taste which is NOT my intent. Again, if you're enjoying it ROCK ON but your enjoyment doesn't automatically mean an entitlement to legitimacy that others must endorse.)

I'm not uninitiated
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
01:14:38 PM
I just prefer Marvel to DC generally. I've read way back on both and I'm just not much a fan of DC's giant eraser approach to history and continuity. I mean, does it really matter if Superboy and Superman were in the same universe? Or which Supergirl came when? (wink) Its a 70 year potluck of ideas and missteps and crazy shit and cool things... its never going to be linear, so I wish they'd just stop trying.
So, did you buy all of Civil War, Psynapse?
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
01:16:19 PM
Father figures
by rock-me Amodeo
Aug 7th, 2008
02:39:44 PM
Yeah, now that I think about it, there ARE lots of fathers in the world of comics that are good and noble role models, when the were mentioned:
Jonathan Kent
Thomas Wayne
Ben Parker (father figure, at least)
Barry Allen was also a good father figure to Wally
Battlin' Murdock at least tried, and would rather have died than look like a crook to his kid. And did.

And then it occurred to me: most of these characters were created in the 60's or earlier. Of those who's fathers are mentioned, some of those early heroes have crappy fathers, but those early heroes have had their dad's described many years later, or retconned into horrible people:
Reed Richard's dad.
Bruce Banner's dad.
Jor-El, maybe.
wasn't Hal Jordan's dad retconned as a creep? I can't remember.

And now, we have new heroes, and I can't think of any of their fathers that have been painted positively.
Look at Kyle Raynor's dad.
Look at Nova's dad. (heh. Look at Warlock's dad, in recent NOVA's.)
Green Arrow, though that picture is still being painted.
STARMAN was unique, because it painted the full picture - a father who tried unsuccessfully to juggle all his responsibilities, and turned out to be human, but managed to win his son's respect.

So into this mix, will we wee Morrison drag ANOTHER good dad into the abyss? I think that is the trendy thing to do, but I don't like it.

I dunno, I could be missing some great examples of me being wrong. Help a brotha out, guys. Is the current trend in comics that all dad's are bad, unless already established in canon?
penultimate paragraph in last post
by rock-me Amodeo
Aug 7th, 2008
02:42:16 PM
"will we SEE..." not will we wee...

Nothing really made me wee this month. Not even Morrison.
Actually No
by Psynapse
Aug 7th, 2008
02:47:30 PM
The beauty of having your sub at the same LCS for 17 years (and being friends with the owner and his wife) means you get to hang around like the employees and read books for free. Ever since Avengers Disassembled and House of M I read the first 1-3 issues of any Marvel or DC mini or maxi in-store to decide if I want own it (32 years as a reader/collector means I now have to be VERY selective just to manage the ginormous mass of books & boxes). So no, didn't pay Marvel a dime but read the entire thing and just wasn't impressed.

Then again, Mark Millar has ALWAYS been very hit or miss for me. That said, his self-aggrandizing (and IMHO VERY much skewed) take on the leftist/ right wing discord in the social landscape of my country viewed through his version of the Marvel universe also just really fucking annoyed me. In fact, quite often while trying to read a Millar story I have a vision of him sitting at his PC with his shorts around his ankles masturbating with one hand and finger-pecking the keyboard with the other while exclaiming "I am SO fucking awesome! I rock!" quite feverishly.

I can't help myself
by Homer Sexual
Aug 7th, 2008
02:50:20 PM
I kind of like the attempts to "fix" continuity, though they are, as you said, never going to really work. I just hate reviving dead characters from years and years ago. Why not bring back the original Supergirl? To be fair, I felt the same way about Jean Grey returning after the Dark Phoenix saga. should never have happened.

I compare my stacks every couple weeks, and had been buying a lot of DC, but the pendulum has swung back toward Marvel again.

I waited for the Civil War trade. I feel Millar writes characters very "out of character" but he is always interesting, if not always good. Civil War worked as a story, but it was very depressing, made me hate a lot of Marvel heroes (especially Stark), killed off Steve Rogers and made Authoritarian heroes the norm. I prefer the rebel heroes (except in the case of The Authority).

Dads
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
02:50:39 PM
I don't think its: "all dads are bad" more like: "rough childhood equals easy background story starting point."
And I admit....
by Psynapse
Aug 7th, 2008
02:51:39 PM
I do 'generally' prefer DC to Marvel myself. LOVE Runaways, AXM, & Young Avengers of the last few years though. (and no matter how twisted their backdrop gets my love of the X-Men & Fantastic Four will never die no matter anorexic it may get at times.)
Scott Lang was a good dad.
by Homer Sexual
Aug 7th, 2008
02:53:41 PM
Hercules is, I guess, currently a good father figure. Alan Scott And Co, but of course all those guys are super retro.
More Bad Dads of heroes
by rock-me Amodeo
Aug 7th, 2008
02:57:03 PM
...and again, all of them are pretty current. Booster Gold's dad. The collective parents of "The Pride". Omni-Man (from INVINCIBLE) though he MAY turn it around.

And in some cases, the hero IS the crappy dad. Cyclops isn't going to win any fathering awards. Neither will Captain Mar-vell.

However, a big shout-out must be made for Commissioner Gordon (but I will point out, him being a good guy has long been established as canon.)

So am I wrong? Are all dad's in current continuity being introduced or retconned as schumcks? The only decent guy I can think of is the new Blue Beetle's dad.
forgor about Scott Lang...
by rock-me Amodeo
Aug 7th, 2008
02:58:34 PM
good one.
FORGOT
by rock-me Amodeo
Aug 7th, 2008
02:58:56 PM
Why does it always come down to masturbation with you guys?
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
03:04:13 PM
I mean, really, dude... Plus, if you're so careful with your purchases (which I take to mean that you don't buy many anymore) and are reading all this guy's stuff for free, are you reall yhis friend? Because not only is Marvel not getting any money, but this guy is losing a large chunk as well. Supporting your LCS does not mean leaning against a wall and reading for hours on end.

I complete disagree with the Stark hate, the guy was not wrong! Romantically and through years of loyalty, I backed Cap, but really, if some muscle brained douchebag was suddenly able to fly and throw cars and shit and decided he was qualified to police the streets simply based on the merit of being a car-throwing-muscle-brained-fl ying-douchebag, that would not be a good thing. Stark took a hard, realistic and nessecary stance. I mean, how many people die during a Hulk ramapage? How many are mained? If the Human Torch crashes through a building, who pays for that? Was anyone hurt? There has to be oversight, its just completely unrealistic in today's world to do it otherwise. PLUS, and this is where I think Marvel REALLY succeeded with Civil War is now we have a World of both Authoritarian heroes AND Rebel Heroes. The best of both worlds.

C'mon, Steve isn't permanantly dead and you must not be reading Cap right now to STILL think that this hasn't been, at the very least, a catalyst for a great story.

Admittedly though, sometimes Millar didn't have everyone's voice quiet right, but I think thats because his cast and story were so big, he would have been better served with double the page count or issues.

As for heroes coming back from the dead?... eh, if it works, it works, its comics, it happens.
Dads theory plus more
by Homer Sexual
Aug 7th, 2008
03:15:58 PM
I would guess the Bad Dads works well with adolescents, which is probably where new readers come from. Similar to the "nerdy outsider" Parker prototype.

I agree that Cap is currently a good story, and can't argue that in a "real world" the whole secret identity thing wouldn't really work. But that is just a little too real-world for me, I guess. I don't mind the registered and non-registered, but can't get into the registered actually Fighting the non-registered, except in the case of the Thunderbolts, et al.

Also good point on coming back from the dead...but Barry Friggin' Allen? I am 40+ and that is waaay too old school for me.

I'm not sold that Barry is staying alive, ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
03:27:40 PM
staying aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive

A nyway, he's the perfect sacrificial character. 1. Well-known. 2. Loved. 3. People want to see him return. BUT ask yourself this: What would Barry's role be today? Doesn't Wally fill the whole role? Barry's role is now the legendary mentor, the one who's legacy Wally is always chasing. To bring Barry back would kill that dynamic and, the most important question, then what? Another man out of time/fish out of water story.

I think Barry is the going to re-sacrifice himself to complete the circle and finish it once and for all right back where it started. Also, did he come back from the dead or did he just run through time?

You really don't like the Authoritarians fighting the rebels? come on, half the comic books ever written are based off the premise of: who would win if this hero fought this hero. There's also the classic: meet, misunderstand, fight, make-up story, as well. Plus... ah... Batman vs. Superman? DKR? What about Roshach as an outlaw hero or Batman fighting cops on the skyscraper rooftops? If they really commit to that world order, there's plenty of good stories to be found there.

Ellis's Thunderbolts was one of my favorites ever, I think. The Whole Steel Spider, American Eagle story? Fantastic and making JAck Flag cool? Loved it and what made that shit possible? Civil War, baby. Civil War.
Please tell me
by Psynapse
Aug 7th, 2008
03:37:23 PM
WHERE I ever indicated that I read ALL of Millar's work? Are you actually reading what I type or is selective interpretation your normal mode of operation? We disagree on these subjects that's all there is to this. Too bad you can't quit editorializing and the arguing said editorialization. Then again, one has to wonder if you are as sure of your convictions as you evince. Seriously, if your opinion is so solid to you why does my dissent rankle you so? (and actually I DO buy a lot still but tend to try more small publisher works these days. Like Avatar, Boom!, & IDW for example)
Sorry Psynapse
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
03:46:02 PM
Both of the "this guy" references were referring to your LCS owner-friend, not Millar. Flip out some more, please.
right back at ya, Psy
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 7th, 2008
04:28:08 PM
check your mailbox
Thats what I say about Marvel.
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
04:39:58 PM
With DC, I just shrug.
I HATED THE CIVIL WAR!
by I am the Terminator
Aug 7th, 2008
04:55:19 PM
The south will rise again!

PWNED!!

all fresh material
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
04:56:14 PM
all of it. bravo.
nope, not confusing
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
05:02:07 PM
I'm just not interested in keeping track in DC as I am in Marvel at the moment. I like the man-behind-the-mask approach of Marvel to DC's just-the-mask thing. Thats not to say I don't read DC. I buy Vertigo titles. A good noir Batman will always bring me in, just like when someone interesting does a good widescreen JLA adventure, but the day by day DC minutia? I'm not that into. Oh, I'm also doing the Sinestro Corp trades, those are fun. And like I said, I am reading Final Crisis. I love Morrison. The Invisibles is the only thing I've kept a complete run of after I dumped most of my collection and Seven Soldiers were great. So no rules here either, its just I like Marvel's roll better.
CIVIL WAR was littered with out-of-character BS.
by SleazyG.
Aug 7th, 2008
06:20:50 PM
Anybody who can't see it is lying to themselves, or nuts, or none too bright, or believes the charming line of broguey bullshit Millar spat out. Reed Richards building an off-world prison in another dimension for his friends to rot in, then building an insane, brain-dead clone of a Norse god and deploying it in the field? BULLSHIT. Tony Stark choosing a faceless government who's played him for a fool before over his friends and fellow warriors? BULLSHIT. Sue Richards, the Invisible Woman, telling fucking Tony Stark to kill his best friend when Tony and Reed would clearly have the technology to save Happy instead? BULLSHITTY BULLSHIT, cuz since when does Sue sign off on murdering civilians? Peter Parker giving Mary Jane and Aunt May a death sentence by revealing his identity, even though he's felt guilty his whole career about getting Uncle Ben killed? BULLSHIT.

Look, the list goes on and on...those are just the first that came to mind. There's one simple fact, though, that is undeniable proof that Mark Millar was writing everybody out of character: he has himself said that he initially was going to put Cap and Iron Man on the OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE ISSUE, then changed his mind because he thought it worked this way better. If that, right there, doesn't tell you he fails to understand the core basics of these characters...frankly, it's because you don't want it to. That fact, which he has never attempted to hide, tells you all you need to know: he bent the characters to the story he wanted to tell instead of using the characters in a logical, organic manner in keeping with who and what they've always stood for. And that's just part of why CIVIL WAR was horseshit.

"All fresh material"
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
09:29:12 PM
That was for the Civil War guy. I wasn't fast enough.
Oh, Sleazy
by Joenathan
Aug 7th, 2008
09:46:30 PM
"Anybody who can't see it is lying to themselves, or nuts, or none too bright, or believes the charming line of broguey bullshit Millar spat out. Reed Richards building an off-world prison in another dimension for his friends to rot in, then building an insane, brain-dead clone of a Norse god and deploying it in the field? BULLSHIT."

No. see Reed is both obsessed with the idea and driven by the challenge. To simplify Reed's character, I will use a line from Jurassic Park (paraphrased): "He was too busy wondering IF he could do it, to wonder SHOULD he do it." I mean, honestly, that train of thought is EXACTLY what created the FF. COME ON, the guy stole a rocketship and had a cosmic accident. Why? Because he didn't think it through...

NEXT

"Tony Stark choosing a faceless government who's played him for a fool before over his friends and fellow warriors? BULLSHIT."

This is a complete misstatement of Tony's motivation, so... wrong. See, horrified by the catastrophe of stamford, Tony realized that the world was changing and that it needed to, so he got at the forefront of the movement before it could Days of Future past on him. And like I said earlier in the talkback, just because you're superstrong, does not mean you get to police the world.

I missed the Happy Hogan thing, but judging by your previous examples... but I'll pass.

As for Peter, Peter is driven by guilt for causing Uncle Ben's death and the need to atone for that. Also, his career has been marred by public disfavor. Tony Stark provided all those things, acceptance, a father figure, respect, these things can seem important and a person can get lost sometimes. PLUS, as an Avenger and head of shield, Tony provided the best protection Aunt May and Mary Jane could possibly need. Unfortuantly, though, Uncle Ben raised Peter right. With great power... Peter knew a lot of what was going on was wrong and he knew MJ and Aunt May agreed. They all knew the score. They were in it together because they were family and loved each other. Yes, Peter made a mistake revealing his identity, just like he made a mistake by not stopping that criminal. It happens and now, just like always, he has to atone for that mistake. CLASSIC spider-man.

As for the last bit, I'm going to have to call Bull shit. See, in his intial thoughts he went opposite, but then you know what happened? He realized he was wrong and did what... switched. Its called a second draft. Its what REAL writers do.
...
by blackthought
Aug 7th, 2008
09:54:26 PM
i feel very red. what does that mean?
Yo Joe(nathan)
by Psynapse
Aug 8th, 2008
07:38:24 AM
It was a looong day at work with more than the usual portion of bullshit to wade through (I work in Marketing) and I concede I likely misread and reacted thusly. It can happen when some knuckle dragging inbred dipshit apparently dumps something like industrial paint thinner into the air vents causing 12 people to gag and choke (me being one of them).
It means you've been spanked somehow Blackthought...
by Psynapse
Aug 8th, 2008
07:39:15 AM
Either that or your drunk or sunburned (maybe both?)
Dear Jeff.....
by Psynapse
Aug 8th, 2008
07:44:36 AM
Bored to tears because A) Heroes fighting heroes=Been there done that. and B)Out-of-character characterization in service of a shit story=me yawn a lot. (Iron Man is Hitler! Mr. Fantastic is Josef Mengele! Mr. Millar? Way to squirt the vinegar you douche)
Wait...you STILL twisted my words you feeb..
by Psynapse
Aug 8th, 2008
09:05:51 AM
"reading all this guy's stuff for free, are you really his friend?

AGAIN, I never said the word "all" anywhere in my post. I specifically stated that I read through Marvel or DC minis and maxis. You are obviously incapable of an actual civilized debate without making up information to attack your opponent so it's schoolyard time now. You are obviously a petty whining specimen of humanity and have now rendered ANY opinion of yours utterly irrelevant save for further proof of what a dipshit you are. Your preference for Inference over Actuality now makes me kindly request that You NEVER breed (if you can find a woman drunk or mentally feeble enough in the first place, that is)as any offpsing is likely to be twice the asshit that you are and require euthanizing .

Damn typo....
by Psynapse
Aug 8th, 2008
09:06:44 AM
Grrr...
One more thing...
by Psynapse
Aug 8th, 2008
09:23:42 AM
I've spent around $19K (That's Nineteen-Thousand US Dollars in case you are too thick to grasp) in that store so yeah, I'd say I'm a pretty goddamn good friend and customer. (it's likely a bit higher but I'm running an annual average since 1991)
stealing is stealing
by Joenathan
Aug 8th, 2008
09:43:58 AM
support your local comic store means: don't treat it like a library. I'm sure your "friend" would appreciate it. Please flip out more.
Well, since I was asked
by Homer Sexual
Aug 8th, 2008
10:17:58 AM
I am still going to just let Sleazy's response stand because he said it better than I could. I appreciate Joenathan's rebuttal, but I still feel what Sleazy said is accurate. Peter Parker especially. You can, and did, make a decent case in defense of Stark but I am suprised you even attempted to defend Spider-Man. IMO, the only defense of that is that Spider-Man has been around so long in so many books that you can have him do anything and get away with it. (Much like....OML....sorry to go there).
Cameron Stewart / Father vs Son
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 8th, 2008
11:18:34 AM
I almost dismissed Apocalipstix out of hand because the tile was a "ripoff" of one of the Invisibles storylines. Then I saw Cameron Stewart was on art duties and I forgave the title because he's worked close with Morrisson in the past. I still passed because it didn't look that interesting to me.

Humphrey, just don't ask him when the next Seaguy is coming out, as apparently that is the question he gets most asked. Or do, and see him blow. Stewart has worked with Morrisson and Brubaker, two totally opposite-styled writers. Wonder how he managed both...

Back to the father vs son metaphor; could it be a cultural thing? Most classic superheroes were created by writers/artist of the Jewish ancestry. The most recent wave of talent influx into the business was definitely British. Could it be that cultures with a heavy and long history (Jewish, British) would produce writers/artists who do focus on destroying the past and creating a new future, whereas writers/artists from a relatively young culture (American) would be more focused on looking up to their very recent past and trying to establish tradition?
Stealing Is Stealing
by Buzz Maverik
Aug 8th, 2008
01:08:47 PM
And I should know. I stole hundreds of dollars worth of comic books (which because thousands of dollars worth of comic books, which have become ... oh, I dunno maybe a few bucks worth of comic books) from convenience stores in my elementary and middle school days.

First of all, let me say a few words in favor of theft: it gets you the comics that your cheap @$$ Dad won't give you money to buy. So, it was really him stealing the comics and not me shoving them into my butt crack at the good ol' Stop 'n' Rob.

Other thoughts: I sorta like SECRET INVASION. Comics have become something different than what they were. Not something better, but not something bad...all the time. While I would kinda prefer being an adult reading kid stuff, I can like being an adult reading decent stuff that we fans think is for adults but really isn't like anything else in media for adults. But I don't buy or steal this stuff...I read it quickly in the shop. Hey, if they don't like, they can put it behind glass!

Let's all be wild and crazy here. It's a comic book page. No need to use kid gloves.

For example, whenever I read a post that says: "I support Cap..." I always think, yeah, what fictional characters politcal positions do I support? Certainly, D'artagnian's. Zorro. The Reverend Dr. Christopher Syn alias the Scarecrow of Romney Marsh. The Challengers of the Unknown...

But I Do Not Support the Teletubbies...
by Buzz Maverik
Aug 8th, 2008
01:11:30 PM
Makes you long for the McCarthy era. Or even the Lenin and McCarthy Era. I will name names...Clyde, Mary, Bill, Rufus...
Am I the only one who thinks Gary Frank's
by Snookeroo
Aug 8th, 2008
01:37:21 PM
Superman artwork looks like something out of a Jack Chick publication?
No Dis-R, Stark Not ALWAYS Conservative...
by Buzz Maverik
Aug 8th, 2008
02:38:23 PM
...that's one of these huge misconceptions that has been agreed upon in the last decade. In the late '60s comics, Stark stopped making weapons, arriving at much the same conclusion he did in the cool movie. He got into a lot of trouble with both the US government and SHIELD. Also, Stark had the wonderful, beautiful, glorious social irresponsiblity to once attack a Federal Prison and disable all of its' armored guards because they were wearing his technology. He's only a conservative when written that way. Just as being a conservative or a liberal is only a bad thing depending on one's point of view.
BUT...
by Joenathan
Aug 8th, 2008
02:47:41 PM
Is Stark making weapons now, or is he just acting Director of SHIELD? Its not the same thing, you know. AND when he conducted the Iron Wars (better know as another time he and Cap fought.) it was because he felt responsible for creating something that was hurting innocents. He couldn't live with that. The Armor Wars weren't waged because he was a liberal OR a conservative, they were waged because he was taking responsibility for his actions. He could see where a world of unchecked and unregulated super armors were going to end up, so he took steps to correct the problem BEFORE it got out of hand, JUST like he did in the wake of the Stamford catastrophe. Seems pretty in character to me...
"I think that he's currently just acting director of SHIELD."
by Joenathan
Aug 8th, 2008
03:25:09 PM
my point exactly
My point
by Joenathan
Aug 8th, 2008
03:40:09 PM
was only that he was still in line with the decisions he made all the way back when he decided to stopp making weapons. It was just a refutation of Sleazy's implication that he had switched stances on the weapon making thing.
Jeff
by Joenathan
Aug 8th, 2008
03:51:44 PM
No problem. I appreciate the feedback on clarity and look forward to further interactions.
Hey Bug
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 8th, 2008
04:35:11 PM
what makes you think McKeever is not long for Teen Titans? He's got the Terror Titans coming out soon and the interviews I read with him seemed to imply he thought he was in for the long run? The dude even dropped Birds Of Prey because he thought it was distracting him from Teen Titans.
Your Discussion?
by Buzz Maverik
Aug 8th, 2008
05:17:14 PM
You're on a message board. It's really anybody's discussion, but since I'm a fictional character myself (one man's Tyler Durdenesque alternate personality is another man's fictonal character)I'd say you're all participating in MY discussion.

And yer welcome. Send me money.

Stark Is A Tree Hugging Liberal Hippie
by Buzz Maverik
Aug 8th, 2008
05:24:01 PM
What about that issue where he fought the Man? His mechanical heart was giving out, his armor was cracked and his repulsor rays were on the frizz. And how did he beat the Man? By sticking it to him, of course!

Also, you might have missed that whole Avengers arc where an Iron Man line up battled the Establishment. You old timers remember. Who'd it get down to? That's right: Iron Man vs. the Conformist! Too bad that continuity was lost in the relaunch, I tell you!

Arkhangelsk
by cameron_stewart
Aug 8th, 2008
07:34:43 PM
As I've had to point out to many people, Grant Morrison did NOT coin the name "Apocalipstick." It is the title of a Serge Gainsbourg-written song on Jane Birkin's 1978 album "Ex Fan Des Sixties" (and it's only one of many subtle musical references in The Apocalipstix book). And even if he did claim ownership to it, in all the times I've talked to Grant over the last 5 years since creating The Apocalipstix, he's never once indicated that he has a problem with it.

As far as Seaguy goes, it's true that I've been asked about a sequel a lot but I've never once blown up over it, I'm always just happy that people care enough to ask. I'm also happy to report that, as offically announced at the San Diego con a couple weeks back, I'm already hard at work on Seaguy 2: Slaves of Mickey Eye, and the first issue should be out in early 2009. If you go digging in the archives of my illustration blog - cameronstewart.blogspot.com - you'll find some preview artwork from Seaguy 2.

Finally, even though Grant and Ed Brubaker are very different styles of writer, I enjoyed working with them equally. They both have their unique challenges but my job as an illustrator is to tackle their scripts with the same commitment.

Sorry The Apocalipstix isn't your thing. Hope maybe you can reconsider some day. Thanks for the feedback!

It's not liberal or conservative
by jmyoung666
Aug 8th, 2008
11:58:08 PM
Stark was always portrayed as having libertarian tendencies and a willingness to disregard the law when he believed something needed to be done, such as wiping his identity from the mind of everyone on earth.

Also, how do you support conscription? Having a registration act makes absolute sense in the real world (although given the accepted history of the Marvel U, it's batshit insane to think Tony would support it). However, why should people who obey the law be forced into slave labor?
I been schooled!
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 9th, 2008
09:09:47 AM
Mr. Stewart, please understand that nothing I have said regarding your work on this talkback was meant to be taken as criticism. I am a huge fan of yours, and your work on Catwoman is the main reason why I used this title to try and interest my girlfriend in comic books as an art form.
>br>Regarding Apocalipstix, I did not mean in any way that Grant Morrison held any kind of trademark over the expression. Just that any one using it in comics would inevitably draw comparisons to that work. When I heard Apocalipstix" I thought: "well, let's see how this stacks up". When I heard Cameron Stewart's Apocalipstix, I thought: "well, this might stack up after all". I live on Montreal's south shore and the only I could have taken a look Apocalipstix would have been by special ordering it. Maybe next time I go into the big city I'll try and look it up.

As for the Seaguy comment, I was just kidding around. It's very easy to misread intent on these interwebs of ours, so I apologize for not making it clearer. Truth is I await eagerly the continuation of Seaguy and will absolutely be there the day it comes out.

Thank you for answering my Morrison/Brubaker question. I'm a total process junkie and these things interest me to no end. I heard that Morrison was rather loose regarding scripting, whereas Brubaker tended to write more detailed scripts. How would you compare them? And were you in contact with Yannick Paquette's studio during Seven Soldiers? I know Manhattan Guardian chronologically came out before Bulleteer, but were you guys working on your series simultaneously? Also, how was it working with Joss Whedon? His scripts for Astonishing X-Men were very precise and I heard he actually goes over the layouts with Geroge Jeanty on Buffy Season 8 before they get inked. Was he like that for Tales of the Vampires?

Anyways, thanks for taking the time to respond to my half-assed posts. It's more than they deserved.
Mr. Cameron part II
by Arkhangelsk
Aug 9th, 2008
10:45:45 AM
Just to clarify, what I'm really wondering about is how do you (Cameron Stewart) reconcile your work habits when working with writers who have such different and opposite demands. And what is your work process? Draw late at night, or during the day? Do you prefer long stretches of work or small pockets buffered by relaxing activities? Inquiring minds want to know!
I Really Don't Argue Superhero Politics
by Buzz Maverik
Aug 9th, 2008
11:35:17 AM
...what with them not being real, and all.

I will say that one of my longstanding rants here when I reviewed before getting fired for refusing to pay my bar tab at the @$$hole clubhouse, is that we fans/fanboys tend to see in black and white. Liberal or conservative. No shades of gray. Unfortunately, even the best writers in comics also fall into that trap from time to time, especially a politically astute UK writer who nails our country dead on in the strictest political sense but whose only cultural understanding of us is from the political media.

Tony Stark COULD be said to fall into the Armand Hammer billionaire school. He could be a J. Robert Oppenheimer WMD creator from the philosophical school of Danish physicist Niels Bohr rather than an Edward Teller genius. Or, he could be a character who dresses up in read and gold armor and fights Namor whenever Subby gets too close to Long Island.

As for me, I'm a "Rebel spaceships striking from hidden bases have won their first victory over the evil galactic empire..." type guy instead of a "The Trade Federation has established a tariff that is being debated via fillibuster in the Imperial Senate. As the Senators eagerly watch the polls, multiple caucuses have been schedule throughout all seven branches of the Republic government..." kinda fella.

Political Media?
by Buzz Maverik
Aug 9th, 2008
11:37:46 AM
Pop media. Pop! Not political! Pop! Although I do admit that "political" makes me sound smarter, which is a good reason not to use it. Never understood those guys who read and talk comics to seem smarter.
Always Portrayals
by Buzz Maverik
Aug 9th, 2008
12:53:38 PM
Most of the time, whenever somebody says, "Hero Man or Captain Super was ALWAYS portrayed as a cryto-Nazi/Commie", you can translate that to mean (most generously):"In all the stories, I'VE read, he's been this way..." Usually, thought, you can safely translate it this way: "I read in WIZARD..." or "I heard some dude say it and he read it in WIZARD but won't admit to reading WIZARD because Buzz is the only comic fan on Earth who has no problem admitting that he occasionally reads WIZARD..." or "I read a post on a message board by some dude who doesn't know what he's talking about..." because when you toss phrases around like "always portrayed..." you're usually dealing with a lot of history. No, Hulk wasn't always a killer. Iron Man didn't always have a political agenda. Batman wasn't always a jerk. Spidey wasn't always a stooge of Satan...
Can't We Just Arm Wrestle?
by Buzz Maverik
Aug 10th, 2008
11:42:11 AM
Or do a chickie-run? You see REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE? We steal a couple of clunkers, a local cutie waves a scarf and we drive toward a cliff. First one to jump out before dying is a chicken.
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